Tradition is no enemy of the church

As a Methodist local preacher of over 43 years experience, I am at home in Mr Fidler's church, but I am also an Anglican Reader. I know Adrian Botwright to be a most caring, perceptive and intelligent priest who is very aware of what he and his church are up against in their ministry to the outsider. What, I wonder, does Mr Fidler means by "tradition", since the term is never defined in the whole of his long letter?

I do agree however, that there could be better stewardship of resources amongst the churches. My Anglican-Methodist membership is a witness to that belief. My ministry has largely been in Dales churches and chapels, apart from a stint overseas in a union missionary environment. Perhaps Mr Fidler can tell us if there is any hard evidence to show that a church, which constantly changes its image to adopt the so-called contemporary idiom, actually pulls in and holds the crowds for any length of time?

Evidence suggests that worship/music styles that were new and "with it" in the 1980s have become "old hat" in 2001. Does a 1980s chorus or worship song for example, still in use in 2001, qualify for the "tradition" label?

It is a profoundly unsettling business to opt always for change. On the other hand, a praying and teaching church, whether "high, low or middle", which regularly assesses its appeal, can lead old and new members into a deeper understanding of how best to offer to God their "sacrifice of prayer and praise". That "growth potential" offering can differ according to the character, culture and background of the congregation.

Both Methodism and the Church of England have recently adopted new worship liturgies. On examination, the Methodist Worship Book and Anglican Common Worship prove to be a judicious mix of the old that remains meaningful and the new that strikes a chord. Neither as yet, appear to have attracted or repelled people in large numbers.

Tradition means that which is "handed on". There are essential elements in the Christian Gospel which are "tradition" from Our Lord himself and which must be handed on, even if there are just a few people left to do it. The real Church has always been only a generation away from extinction. In our society, there are an increasing number of hostile campaigners from the media downwards, who are doing all they can to hasten that demise, or so they think.

Some of the Church-targeted criticism is justified, some of it not, and a lot of it is just plain ill-informed. The situation is no different from the first century AD. On Good Friday, the Church was reduced to one man and He died on a cross. Two days later, however, there was the resurrection....

We live in a very religious age, but it has little to do with orthodox Christianity. There are umpteen "pick and mix" spiritualities and people confidently assert their God-given right to freedom of choice. What our society is producing and will produce even more, are an increasing number of young to middle-aged people who emerge much bruised from a series of broken relationships and "experiences" to face a life of utter loneliness.

Some of these folk are indeed finding their way back to church. Some are invited; others just come. Where a local church-based community is faithful in its prayer and worship life (trad. or mod.), humble in its attitudes and where its caring presence reaches to those outside its ranks, then indeed it is carrying on the "tradition" handed on by the Lord Himself.

I remind Mr Fidler of the words of Fred Pratt Green, the greatest of all modern Methodist hymn-writers:

"The Church of Christ, in every age,

Beset by change but Spirit-led

Must claim and test its heritage

And keep on rising from the dead.

We have no mission but to serve

In full obedience to our Lord:

To care for all, without reserve

And spread his liberating Word."

Mrs Kathleen Kinder,

Station Road, Giggleswick.

Lacks freshness

SIR - In continuing the debate "why is church attendance down ?" I agree with Mr Fidler's sentiments that the spirit of Christian organised religion lacks spontaneity and freshness and is fast becoming "a mechanical repetition of a formula which has lost its original meaning".

It is my belief that God is more creative and inspirational than that and would sorely urge us to use our knowledge acquired over the years and move with the times.

I am a church-goer and am aware that our churches are too often half full. I also work as a counsellor in GP surgeries, with people who have emotional and spiritual difficulties and are seeking an understanding and non-judgmental ear. I am relatively at home in the world of feelings and emotions, but it is clear to me that feelings are a problem area in our culture.

We often ignore them, deny them, and find them disturbing and messy.

Today, change within the church requires much more focus on real day to day struggles with real life issues and feelings. We need to recognise and express feelings and need even more, to allow God to give guidance and encourage honesty, sensitivity, self-control and the ability to laugh at ourselves.

That is what I seek from the church. I also seek to give praise to God and remember what he did and still does for us, but I do not believe God needs this to be our sole focus and perhaps an excuse for avoiding the necessary changes that we have to broach.

I think He would like to see us get our acts together and take some responsibility for getting it right and filling up the churches.

This requires courage, an open mind and ability to listen to people's misgivings about church as it is today. We do know a lot more than we did 40-100 years ago about humaneness. People are not daft and they are not going to be patronised. Church attendance may be down, but in my experience spiritual neediness is not, so there is clearly a problem. I wonder if the churches are prepared to take this on.

Jane Taylor,

Kildwick Hall Mews, Kildwick.

Ticket torment

SIR - I felt I must write to ask if someone could kindly tell me what is happening to our local rail system. The reason for asking is as follows:

Yesterday I went to Silsden train station with my two daughters with the intention of going to Leeds to see my eldest off to London back to university and to take my other daughter to Leeds to buy some clothes.

We struggled with a very heavy suitcase down the steps to the station, looked at the machine to purchase tickets but it wasn't working so we sat in the shelter and waited for the train knowing that I could purchase the tickets on the train as I had done only two weeks previous.

When the train arrived, we got onto it while the guard/ticket collector watched us struggle with the case. A moment later the guard came around and I asked for two tickets to Leeds return as my eldest daughter already had a return ticket to London.

I was told that I should not have got onto the train without a ticket and would be charged a penalty fee of £10 each!

When I said the machine wasn't working I was told that I should have purchased a permit to get on to the train. I confessed to having not seen a permit ticket machine as we got on to the platform but it was simply a case of "it's more than my job's worth" and were again told to pay up the £10 each.

I was told that this system had been in operation since last September but when I told the guard I had been to Leeds on three occasions since September and had purchased my ticket on the train with no problem on all these journeys, he simply said that those guards were wrong! I refused to pay saying that I would get a permit ticket at the next station (Keighley). I was told to do that then.

So I left my eldest daughter on the train and with my other daughter got off to purchase a ticket from the Keighley platform. I then turned around to see the train setting off leaving us at Keighley to wait for the next train! My daughter who has a disability due to an accident was left struggling with her case at Leeds on her own.

Finally, after half an hour, another train arrived and myself and my daughter were able to continue our journey but at Bingley station we witnessed a man asking the guard if he could buy his ticket on the train but was abruptly told to go and get a permit from the machine.

While the bewildered man went to the machine to purchase his ticket the train set off and he was left on the platform waving his permit ticket! ! The guard just looked at him.

I appreciate that this measure has been taken to help cut down on fare hoppers but the way I see it any experienced fare hopper will just buy a 10p permit ticket and "hop" on and off as before.

Surely the guards on British Rail could use a little initiative when it comes to this. I mean I could hardly have "hopped" anywhere with a three ton suitcase!

Sharon E Bradley,

Gargrave Road, Skipton.

Charging policy

SIR - Having read Mr Fretwell's letter "Wrong solution" (Craven Herald April 6) can I clear up what appears to be a misunderstanding?

The decision to reduce the full day parking charge from £3.50 to £2 in the national park's car parks was never seen as a solution to the problem of visitors' parking their cars outside of residential premises. The decision was taken to encourage people to stay longer in the towns and villages of the area, and in turn, give them more time to enjoy what is on offer.

Unfortunately, it is human nature to avoid car parking fees, however low they are. I am not convinced that had we reduced the hourly rate we would have seen all visitors enthusiastically using our car parks. After all, the people who want to avoid car park charges never go into a car park in the first instance to find out how much they might save!

Mr Fretwell is right to say we didn't consult with his Chamber of Trade. However, throughout last year we did consult with a number of communities through our Area Actions initiative. Over 400 national park residents, many of whom are involved in local businesses, told us that they thought our charge for a day's parking was too high, putting people off staying for any length of time. Acting on this consultation we took the decision to cut the charge for a day's parking across all car parks in the national park.

As many of your readers will have noticed, over the last three months we have been redeveloping the Grassington car park, using Government and county council money.

The redevelopment will, I am sure, make Grassington an even more attractive place to visit, especially for coaches, who will not have to pay a penny. This will bring visitors into the heart of Wharfedale to spend their tourist pounds, hopefully without parking in the residential areas of the village.

David Butterworth,

Chief Executive,

Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority,

Colvend, Grassington.

Don't cancel galas

SIR - How disappointing to read about the cancellation of Langcliffe and Horton galas (Craven Herald, April 20).

Why should the views of one or two affect the hundreds of locals and tourists who, I'm sure, would love to come and enjoy what are both marvellous days out. Although farming is on its knees at the moment, how typical it is that the local farmers were "OK" about the events going ahead.

While not under-estimating the importance of farming, it is only a small percentage of the businesses that have are being devastated by foot and mouth. We should be promoting galas and events, not cancelling them.

Fell racing at Langcliffe is out of the question, as it is at any other carnival, but I'm sure that all these race-prepared finely tuned athletes would give their right leg to road race up to Victoria Cave and back. Probably the finest hill road race course in the country.

What about children's soccer at both galas - better than most premiership matches.

Come on Langcliffe and Horton, and other events. It's not too late to change. The countryside is closed, because we are closing it.

GK Harrison,

Ingfield Crescent, Settle.

Pigeon post

SIR - The old post office yard in Ship Corner, Skipton is full of pigeons flying in and out at all hours of the day. Over the Bank Holiday was a typical example of why they should be culled.

Feathers, droppings and mites flutter down on the public and tourists. A total disgrace.

Look at the doors and wonder if the do-gooders in this town are prepared to clean up the mess or climb a ladder to clear out the blocked guttering caused by pigeon droppings.

Finally I would like to comment on the public banter regarding Robert Heseltine having the guts to try and re-establish himself as a councillor. The public will judge his outcome and that's what councillors are all about - only as good as the public sees them with their own eyes and ears.

Some of the pubic has forgotten the good things Mr Heseltine has done for local sport, senior citizens and the farming community. He has fought for them and put himself out for them.

Remember that only a few years ago the Arsenal defender Tony Adams was sent to prison. He came back to represent and captain his country at football.

Allan Mason,

Jennygill Crescent, Skipton.

Too much rubbish

SIR - We complain that the amount of rubbish in Skipton is far too high. Just around one block we found a huge amount of rubbish, including a knife (for eating with), a battery and a cigarette lighter.

We have tried to stop this ourselves but there is not a lot of effect so we would be delighted if your readers would help the hygiene in parks and streets in Skipton by not dropping litter.

Ben Blackwell, Rebecca Chappell and Jonathan Newhouse (all aged eight),

Skipton.

Invisible drilling

SIR - In response to Jennifer Wood's letter (Craven Herald, April 20), I can confirm that the invisible borehole was drilled in Cross Hills on April 2.

Percolation tests were carried out at depths of nine metres and 12.2 metres. The results are being analysed and the findings will be discussed at a public meeting with residents of the private streets.

Reg King,

Group engineer,

North Yorkshire County Council.

Seat of problem

SIR - At most dance venues, whether they be dance halls, church halls, village halls or working men's clubs, the normal rule is that "prior reservation of seats is not allowed". Consequently, people who arrive early are not allowed to save seats for their friends by placing handbags or items of clothing on the adjacent seats.

On dance nights at Gargrave Village Hall, however, this rule is interpreted in a completely different way. If someone arrives late and all or most of the seats are taken by people who are already dancing, the new arrival can sit on any seat, even if it is marked as occupied by clothing or other items being left on or under it.

According to the committee's interpretation of the "no reservation rule", when the dancers return to their seats the new arrivals are quite in order to ask them to find other seats. This of course can cause arguments and trouble between the people concerned.

Dances at Gargrave Village Hall are well attended and people come from miles around. However, not many Gargrave people attend. Could this be because the locals are aware of the committee's interpretation of the "no reservation rule" and stay away because "once bitten, twice shy"?

R Watson,

Neville Road, Gargrave.

Selfish sailing

SIR- The other day I was chatting to a Dales farmer friend of mine who rears sheep and cattle.

Inevitably the foot and mouth situation arose. I was amazed and shocked to be told by him that the sailing club who use the nearby Grimwith Reservoir are planning to restart sailing in the immediate future: I believe this is despite the wishes of the Yorkshire Water Authority who lease the water to them (and cannot therefore legally prevent it) and all the local farmers whose land abuts the access road and reservoir.

At the onset of the epidemic the YWA rightly closed public access to the water and surrounding picnic/leisure areas and even stopped renting out holiday cottages situated there.

Public support for these measures has been outstanding and now all this appears to be about to be jeopardised by those members of this Sailing Club who come from far afield to the horror of the farmers and I suggest all right thinking people.

Jill Bateson

Leeds Road, Rawdon.

Editor's note: Craven Sailing Club, based at Embsay Reservoir has suspended all its activities indefinitely.

Alternative to cull

SIR - I am not a farmer or a vet but like most of the rest of the population I stand a helpless witness on the sidelines watching the tortuous and for some agonising progress of this most virulent disease as it ravages the farmland and creeps ever closer to our district.

I ask myself if there is not a better way of dealing with outbreaks than the cull and burn or bury solution being so single-mindedly pursued by the experts.

The thinking behind the policy, that of preventing the spread of the disease, is of course totally correct, but the subsequent problems created by the build-up of slaughtered animals and the difficulty of deciding the manner of their disposal could be avoided. The main problem is the sheer number of carcasses to be disposed of within an acceptable timescale after slaughter; not to mention the enormous cost resulting from the huge scale of the operation.

Consider an alternative:

1. When an outbreak is confirmed, every animal on the affected farm should, as is now the case, be quickly slaughtered.

2. Instead of culling all of the animals within a certain radius of the infection, immediately vaccinate them and physically move them inwards towards the epicentre of the outbreak. (This would create a "fire-break" of empty land but without resulting in a mountain of rotting carcasses to dispose of.)

3. Slaughter all the vaccinated animals in a controlled way only if symptoms developed or when disposal measures were securely in place whichever was the sooner.

This would take the pressure off those whose job it is to control the disease and could probably be achieved without the mass deployment of the army and the cohorts of helpers and their equipment drafted in from all around the country and beyond.

No doubt there would be logistical problems posed by this approach, not least the welfare of the animals gathered together at the centres of the outbreaks. They would have to be fed whilst awaiting slaughter and pressure would be put on the farmers unfortunate enough to be at the centre of the outbreak. However there would be an opportunity for the validity of vaccination to be tested and important lessons learned for addressing any future occurence.

Above all pictures of lorry loads of grotesque carcasses and the smoking pyres of burning animals would not be flashed across the world compounding the havoc being wrought on the rural businesses of the UK.

As there seems to be a lack of consensus between the experts at MAFF, many veterinary professionals and the farmers themslves, I have little hesitation about throwing a little lateral thinking into the debate.

Peter Wales,

Grassington Road, Skipton.

Explanation please

SIR - Regarding the article 'New house plan resurrects old battle over beauty spot' (Craven Herald, April 20), we would point out that the Nan Scar and Ickornshaw Residents Association were wrongly quoted when it was reported that "members also want the proceedings stopped to allow a proper investigation to take place into how the previous plans were passed".

This is not the case. What has been passed, rightly or wrongly, is now in the past and as such, will remain so. The said plans were for the erection of two bungalows, four garages, two swimming pools (all within a conservation area, a local beauty spot with public footpath through woodland and meadowland, with a trout beck, interesting flora and fauna, and in also a much loved amenity area for local residents).

We request that Craven District Council cease forthwith any further formal consideration of the new planning application now placed before them for a two storey, four bedroomed house pending a full audit (preferably by an independent authority) and subsequent explanation to be made public, for the following reasons:

1 In 1981, planning consent was approved for Shepherd Lodge, a bungalow (outside the village boundary), subject to a Section 52 Agreement being placed on the remaining land. This is a legally binding document ensuring that further development on any part of this land in the applicant's ownership would never be allowed... until the next time!

2 In 1989, regardless of the Section 52 remaining in place, an application was again sought for planning permission to build a second bungalow (The Hawthorns). The chairman of the planning committee. at that time advised councillors that "to overturn a Section 52 Agreement was a serious matter, and the application should be refused".

But despite strong protests from residents, the general public, and contrary to the recommendations of the chairman of the planning commitee, Cowling Parish Council, the advice of the council's own solicitor and chief planning officer, approval was once again granted, subject to a new Section 52 being drawn up to protect the remaining land from further development.

The council promised that contrary to objections, this would not create a precedent.... until the next time!

3. An application has again been applied for, for planning permission to build a two storey, four bed roomed house on the land which, we believed, was well and truly covered by the said agreement.

On examination of the Plan attached to the 1989 Section 52 Agreement we find that the blue boundary line protecting the land in question from any further development had disappeared from around the patch of land on which this new house is to be built. The land now appears to be unsecured and ripe for further development. All the rest of the area is still covered by the Section 52 .

Why and when did this deed of variance take place, why were councillors and other interested parties never informed, why were notices never posted to this effect, and who decided that this boundary should be removed from the 1989 plan?

These are the questions we wish to see investigated before any further consideration takes place.

There is definitely no identified need for extra housing in this particular location, especially when the new estate in Cowling is to be extended following the demolition of Walter Brigg's Garage.

We are firmly of the opinion that the application should be rejected immediately, considering the previous history (which by now is becoming quite ludicrous -after all, what does a legal document mean any more?). We would like, once and for all, to have firm assurance, from the powers that be, that there will be no ... next time.

Howard Turner,

Nan Scar and Ickornshaw Residents Association,

Squirrel Cottage,

Ickornshaw.

What's going on?

SIR - Hopefully, through your Letters Page, I can get some answers to questions, concerning the report in the Herald (April 20). I am one of many of Nan Scar's residents who remain at a complete loss as to how the two previous bungalows ever got built, in 1981 and 1989, on conservation land, in an amenity area used by villagers, and in a beauty spot, when legal covenants, (Section 52 Agreements) ensured that no further developments would ever take place on the land.

I understand that in 1989, many objections and concerns were strongly expressed stating that should the second bungalow (The Hawthorns) be developed, the overturning of a Section 52 would establish a pattern of encroachment in this area of Nan Scar and Ickornshaw, leading, to further building as a matter of routine. The objectors were assured that this was not so.

By the council's own interpretation infill means "the filling-in by new development of an incongruous gap in an otherwise built-up frontage. Where is the incongruous gap? Where is the built-up frontage? They don't exist.

Whatever happened to the Section 52 Agreement securing the land from further development? Doesn't it matter anymore?

I have heard that for this plan to possibly be approved , it could be based on something called "a planning gain". This, I understand ,means that the previous haulage business would never be able to take place again, because the land would become "residential." Apart from the fact that the business ceased 10 years ago when the applicant retired, the land, as far as I can work it out, is still classed as "agricultural" Does anyone out there know what is going on?

Before further consideration to this particular new application is given, I would like to see some satisfactory answers to the questions posed above.

Mrs Joyce Porter,

Nan Scar,

Cowling.