Sir Norman Bettison told a man in a pub that South Yorkshire Police would try to "concoct a story that all of the Liverpool fans were drunk", the inquests into the Hillsborough tragedy has heard.

A month after the April 1989 disaster, the former chief constable of West Yorkshire and Merseyside police forces was said to have made the comment to a civil servant in the Fleur de Lys pub in Sheffield.

John Barry said he and Sir Norman, a chief inspector with South Yorkshire Police at the time, were among a group of people who would go to the pub following a business course they both attended.

Mr Barry told the jury sitting in Warrington, Cheshire, that both had just got a pint and moved away from the bar when Sir Norman told him: "I have been asked by my senior officers to pull together this South Yorkshire Police evidence for the (Taylor) inquiry and we are going to try to concoct a story that all of the Liverpool fans were drunk, and that we were afraid they were going to break down the gates so we decided to open them."

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Sir Norman is due to be questioned later today about his role on the day of the fateful FA Cup semi-final, where 96 Liverpool fans died, and his subsequent involvement in gathering evidence for the Taylor Inquiry which began the month after the disaster.

The jury has previously heard evidence from a former South Yorkshire Police (SYP) colleague of Sir Norman that they both attended a briefing the Monday after the tragedy and were told to put the blame on Liverpool fans.

Last week, former detective chief superintendent Terry Wain denied he held any such briefing.

Mr Wain compiled a report for Lord Justice Taylor on behalf of SYP, which was later edited, and included a section on the events of the day which was written by Sir Norman.

Mr Barry said he attended the FA Cup semi-final and was in the Leppings Lane end.

He left the stadium "extremely distressed" shortly before 4pm and later told students on the course, including Sir Norman, that he missed a class because he had been at the match.

The witness said Sir Norman approached him afterwards and said he too had been to the game when off duty.

Jonathan Hough QC, counsel for the inquest, asked Mr Barry if anything had prompted Sir Norman's remark to him in the pub.

Mr Barry said: "Nothing."

Mr Hough asked: "How certain are you now of precisely what words he said?"

Mr Barry said: "Absolutely certain."

Mr Hough asked: "What was your immediate response or reaction to these remarks?"

Mr Barry replied: "I was stunned. I was just staggered. I was shocked."

In a recent statement to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, Mr Barry said: "I was gobsmacked because he knew the traumatising effect that Hillsborough had had on me. I thought 'Why are you saying this to me?'.

"It was a very odd thing to say. He knew I had been at the Leppings Lane end and had seen the bodies piling up and had been absolutely traumatised by it."

Mr Barry told the inquests that the comment in the pub was made "in a very matter-of-fact tone".

He said: "He was just relating what he had been told to do ... I guess I thought maybe he felt it was a feather in his cap."

He said he had no further "significant conversations" with Sir Norman while they were both on the MBA course and the subject of Hillsborough was never mentioned again.

Mr Barry did not give evidence to the Taylor Inquiry or the original inquests but approached the Hillsborough Family Support Group in August 1998 when he read that a private prosecution was being brought against match commander David Duckenfield and his senior colleague, Bernard Murray.

His information was ultimately not used in the private prosecution, the court heard.

In 2009 he contacted Maria Eagle MP after reading a newspaper article about comments she had made in the House of Commons naming Sir Norman as "being involved in a black propaganda unit, was the expression she used".

Discussions took place as to whether he would tell his story to the Press, but he chose not to.

But the pub conservation was eventually relayed in Parliament by Ms Eagle following the September 2012 publication of the Hillsborough Independent panel report, and he went on to give media interviews.

Mr Hough said to Mr Barry: "You are aware that Sir Norman Bettison has denied the words that were attributed to him and that he continues in that denial?"

"Yes," replied Mr Barry.

Mr Hough said: "It might be said that the words you attributed to Norman Bettison would have been very foolish words for him to speak. Words that could, if made public, threaten his career. Would you accept that?"

Mr Barry replied: "That is correct."

Mr Hough said: "What would you say to the suggestion that it was rather odd for him to say those words to somebody he did not particularly know well?"

The witness said: "It was odd. I was very very surprised. I couldn't understand it."

Asked why he had not come forward with his information nearer to the time of the disaster, he said: "I wish that I had gone to the Taylor Inquiry with it but I think there are several reasons that I have explained why I did not ... I mean just the shock, the trauma I was going through in the months afterwards and the isolation."

He said he did not and had never held a grudge against Sir Norman.

Mr Barry agreed with Paul Greaney QC, representing the Police Federation, that he had been describing what amounted to Sir Norman "announcing to you that there was to be a cover-up and having done so there was not another word".

Mr Greaney said: "For all he knew you were part of the group that was to be blamed in the cover-up?"

"Yes," said the witness.

The barrister continued: "Can you understand why it might be thought, to say the least, not at all likely that an intelligent and experienced police officer should admit to you behaviour that was, at the very least, career ending?"

Mr Barry said: "I would have thought it unlikely if anybody had put the suggestion to me. It was unlikely but it happened. What I said is what happened."

The witness agreed that he had been and continued to be "deeply affected" by his experiences at Hillsborough.

Mr Greaney asked: "What I want you to consider is whether you are able to accept, Mr Barry, the real possibility that your traumatised state at the time has caused you to remember Norman Bettison saying things that he never actually said."

Mr Barry replied: "No, I don't accept that at all. I know exactly what he said. I remember it quite clearly."

Mr Greaney put it to the witness that Sir Norman announced to the business class on April 24, 1989 that he would not be attending again "for the foreseeable future" because he had been seconded by a team working on the disaster.

And in contrast to Mr Barry's recollection that the pub comment was made in mid to late May, Sir Norman - according to Mr Greaney - had in fact not attended a single class that month and did not return to the course until July 1989.

Mr Barry said that did not cause him to doubt his recollection of events.

He said: "I have absolutely no doubt of my memory of events and I don't think that the fact I was traumatised had any bearing of my memory of what happened."

Mr Greaney asked if he supported the ongoing cause of the Hillsborough families.

He said: "I support the cause of getting to the truth of what happened.

I don't have a particular axe to grind in terms of the Hillsborough families.

"I know my part in it, which is relating what Norman Bettison told me and that happened to be in line with what the Hillsborough families and others have been saying for some time. But I'm not particularly rooting for the Hillsborough families or anybody else. I'm simply relating what Norman Bettison said to me."

He said he had made a financial contribution to the private prosecution by the Hillsborough families.

Mr Greaney said: "I am not in a position to say whether you have made up your account to support a cause that you believe in deeply or whether, in some way, you have come to make a dreadful mistake.

"But I am in a position to suggest that the simple fact is that you are wrong and that Norman Bettison never said to you, or anyone, that there was a plan to blame the fans. That's my suggestion to you, Mr Barry."

Mr Barry replied: "I don't know why on earth I would make up what I'm reporting Norman Bettison said. I simply do not understand. I have sworn the oath and told the truth. I will stand by that."